2 questions.

"We reduced effective robotics consumption on medium and small towers because it was judged to be better than increasing the consumption on large towers"

You actually doubled the consumption for medium and quadrupled it for large towers. Currently all towers just use 1 robotics, no matter which size.

And will faction towers be available again? I might be wrong, but AFAIK they were removed them from loot tables about 2-3 years ago.

Any waste factor on the blueprints? PE still going to affect them?

edit: bah. quick post needs a receive notifications checkbox.

I wonder if this change to consumption will make a marked difference to the trading price of Robotics...? I'm a touch unsure whether the drop in 'demand' will be significant enough, but if it is... well now, even more interesting... :)

Question: Do these estimates factor in sov costs?

^^ This.

- AND -

Letting all blues use all your JBs . . . . nice.

Letting all blues use all your JBs and not giving them some way to fuel the JB . . . . not nice.

Don't let them take fuel out or see how much is in there, but create either a setting that actually allows them to voluntarily fuel the bridge, OR, put on a setting that makes them (or anyone, even if in your Aliance) pay for their jump in liquid ozone.

You could either make it POS specific, or a option that queues off some global Alliance setting the executor can set. In that way, you could say "Everyone get here! Reds inbound! The bridges are "free Pass" to you!" - or - "Nothing's going on today except some hardcore carebearing. Pay for your own damned fuel!"




EDIT: While you're at it, please also create a log of who used the JB inluding at least char name and shiptype. This way if someone is abusing the network, we can see it and whap them in the head. - Thanks!

which really brings up the other problem, this one size fits all while wonderful for POSes that have enough guns and arrays to really fill up an overview doesn't do much for the corp with the faction tower with only a few mods online specifically in order to save fuel costs! now with the blocks it won't matter if I have 1 gun online or 20...

To give faction tower bonuses in high-sec, if they match the racial type of the system's NPC faction no charters are needed. In fact actually I don't understand why you can't just get rid of the entire charter system to begin with while doing this fuel change and just require faction standing?

It's more or less a pointless inconvenience than anything as it doesn't come close to breaking the bank in terms of money. Why force people to now calculate that they lose a fuel block of space adding in a random amount of charters?

It will take 10 minutes to produce 4 Ice Block, so it will take 5 days to produce a month worth of fuel for a large tower

Basically:

If i have to set up a Tower with fuel for 1 Month and you have 140k space and have to fuel it with a 10.000 k ship. How many runs do you have to take?

or if you use a Iteron V with 38 k space. it is still a pain in the ass.
Yeah you start to love those weekly runs where you are jumping fuel from System A to System B. Great way of spending time. NOT.

What is this half-and-half stuff?
How are we supposed to plan for that?
You realize how many towers some of us have to maintain?
25+ towers?

stocks of heavy water on high sec systems of all regions of new eden have been bought and relisted at 100-200 isk / unit...

i never said i didn't had a stock.

i just stated a fact : this blog put every market manipulator on action on heavy water.
which means lots of guys consider this change will be really important on this market.

THIS

Question 1: Why was heavy water so cheap to begin with?
Question 1a: Is there an oversupply of heavy water?
Question 1b: Is powergrid used infrequently?

Question 2: Should heavy water be worth more?
Question 2a: What effect would more expensive heavy water have?
Question 2b: Would this actually raise the cost of running a POS or would other prices be depressed?

I must be missing something. There seems to be a slight adjustment in the amount of materials, but an extra step in producing the fuel which tends to mean more hauling. And without the faction tower fuel reduction, and the ability to drop fuel consumption by leaving grid/cpu unused, that means even more hauling... The maths is simpler once you've got the blocks but I have a tool for that.

What am I not seeing that has everyone happy?

Spoken like a true "Big Brother".

How does making POS cheaper to fuel help everyone? It doesn't. It only helps the old, rich, experienced players. No one else.

And it directly hurts the new players.

So this means faction towers will use 15% and 25% less fuel total? So instead of a 50% ice reduction it will be a 25% total fuel cost reduction... What kind of effect will this have on PI prices?

The problem with making the BPs have waste (not researchable, everything is researchable, the question is, is there waste?) would be that people might not have time to research them before the change goes live. Making them no-waste BPs, like the other POS BPOs would solve this issue.

Also, is there a reason you have made the fuels racial rather than generic?

So....

Any particular reason that they're nearly quadrupling the fuel costs for large towers?

4) Final thought: I know this is loosely related to starbases, but for the Love of all that is right in the world....CAN YOU PLEASE MODIFY the Corp. Hangar Divisions to include more than just the 7 it allows now?!? PLEASE!? It would make life living out of a corp. hangar array so much easier and safer.

Now I am entirely confused. There are far too many numbers going around with fuel and consumption.

Can someone explain what that means? 40/80/20 or whatever that is.

Is it possible to update the main blog with all this information so anyone can come into the thread and know what is going on?

Also what is WRT or whatever abbreviation the dev was using?

What is going on with faction towers? First they are just getting a fuel bay increase, now the reduced fuel consumption is something that is going into effect rather than the larger fuel bays?

What about the issues with the faction towers, you know the fact that they don't drop anymore? Can we get this fixed?

Is it possible to upgrade the SMA's so they are organized like a CHA - allowing each player to have a safe spot to put his ships?

Also would it be possible to be able to assign each hanger tab to only 1 player? As it stands if I give someone the ability to access High Slot 1 - they have the ability to access High Slot 1 on all CHA's unless one of them requires higher access (fuel tech or the ability to anchor)

has anyone actually noticed the massive price spike in heavy water and liquid ozone in the past, oh, 24 hours?

POS fuel cost is going up by the hour since integration of H.W. and L.O. into "fuel consumption". I'd love to see CCP reverse just that part, just to see the annoying market ****** get their manipulation isk destroyed

However; a Faction Towers main bonus in longer fuel cycles was due to it using LESS FUEL and therefore; COSTING LESS TO RUN. Adding a larger fuel bay doesn't make a faction pos that sexy anymore tbh (imo) as it will still cost the same amount to run as a normal pos.

From the perspective of someone who has seen both sides of the coin, I can say that these changes (including the revisions) are extremely positive ones.

Whilst a few people have jumped in to point out that technically, this change actually makes things even 'more' complex is true, it does make life easier and more fun, I'll give two examples

Running 20 towers
When it came to refueling them, I loaded up our special corporation website which keeps track of all our towers, including their PG/CPU usage, I would then ping the API to get the current fuel volumes in our first 4 towers nearby and now know how much of every fuel type I need in order to top them all up to maximum.

I then sit there and copy these over from our fuel reserves until my Rorqual/Anshar is full, then head off to the towers.

When I get to the towers, I have to re-go through the math and copy the correct amounts of each fuel type into each of the towers.

with the new system...
I open the corp hanger, drop a ton of pellets into my hanger, undock and go fuel towers.

For the long term organisation, we just ensure we keep a steady production of pellets going and everything is great.

Has anyone even noticed the initial numbers per a block and the fact that it uses 4 of those an HOUR!!?
The following is use-age numbers for large towers based on the original posted figures per a block.

(followed by lots of stuff)

[quote=Scrapyard Bob]
Hence the reason new players and small corps who base their living out of PI are getting nerfed. Thanks for the numbers.

This isn't an industry at all. Like all industries that move from intermediate products to final products, manufacturers will handle it in-house. If anything, it will probably make it harder for manufacturers who are not fully vertically integrated.

So yes, it is worse for the little guy. However, I do not care.

I really have to go back to do the math !!!

Today I spend (i)525,203.12 per hour per tower = (i) 378,146,246.40 for 30 days
Under the cube concept I would spend (i)591,996.32 per hour per tower = (i)426,237,350.40 for 30 days

Thats a 13% increase in operating costs per tower. Thus I would concur that if the fuel blocks where reduced in cost by 1/3 that would lower overall costs by 12%.

read 53 pages? im getting around to it, but I just read the devblog and see no new information that would make my post old news...

Probably when they roll out the update, or, twenty min after you will have had to start producing them to keep your POS up.

Or even better: Make my life simpler -- reduce the m3 of the refined ice fuels. THAT will save me time and headaches.

Yeah. I want to hear a official answer to that question also.

I hope it is more than 4 weeks.

Roughly: research 14 days for "perfect" BPOs
and about 10 days to get fuel blocks build and deliverd...

Cost savings (approximate) by tower size each 30 days, assuming that you were previously maxed out on HW/LOz:

Small towers: 40M/30d (-35%)
Med towers: 40M/30d (-19%)
Large towers: 24M/30d (-6.4%)

Since small towers only paid a maximum of 16M ISK for their HW/LOz needs, a bare small tower with zero of each still ends up about 24M ISK/30d cheaper under the new system. Medium towers HW/LOz usage is about 31M, so they'll still end up at least 9M/30d cheaper. Large towers had less overall savings, so they might actually go up in price slightly due to increased HW/LOz usage.

According to the inital post, "The way we're going to roll this out is that the blocks, their blueprints and the changes to tower capacities will be introduced in the main patch." So I went to a Thukker Mix station and no Blue Prints. Any idea when they will be available?

fuel block blueprints will not be seeded on tranquility today
reported by CCP Spitfire | 2011.11.29 15:50:01 | NEW

The new blueprints for fuel blocks, as featured in the blog Starbase happy fun time blog by CCP Greyscale, will not be seeded immediately after the release of Crucible. We are expecting that these blueprints will be seeded on the market in the next couple of days. We will not be switching over to fuel blocks immediately so players will still have plenty of time to get the new blueprints once they are seeded on the market.

CCP:

Umm, just tried to put some fresh cooked Gall blocks in a Shadow Tower... it won't let me. This plan is currently flawed

If you bother to keep up with front page news, it two weeks from the release of 11-30-2011 so the 14th of December.

Starbase structures begin consuming fuel blocks exclusively on January 24th. Hopefully this timeline will allow you to build up a sizable stock of blocks, without ruining your Christmas. IGÇÖm sure your family will appreciate you not bringing your laptop to the Christmas dinner to start production jobs. Please keep in mind that on the day of the switch, POSs will ONLY consume fuel blocks and all the old items will no longer keep the starbase going.